Please help UKClimbing continue to provide varied and free content by becoming an official UKC Supporter. ". > Of course, but having one rule for "them" and another for "us" is somewhat problematical in several ways.
> That's true, but the problem is a hill rescue may require the MRT to be assembled together introducing new vectors for transmission and risks spreading the disease further afield. > I can only surmise that there must be something exceptional in the circumstances. As Mountain Rescue in Scotland now appears to be an arm of law enforcement, should we assume that they are therefore funded by same.
That's open and allows easy access to the very useful track leading up on to Hillfoot Hill etc and which has branches across to Whitewisp etc.
If you would like your post removed, type the words “SOLD” or “DELETE” in the title box. Nick Kempe is a notable exception to this - he could well prove to be one of the heroes of the hour.
> The point is that guidelines are guidelines not law. I (genuinely) don’t believe I have acted out with the letter or spirit of the rules. All rights reserved. But it would be interesting to know how many people drove to the highlands from the central belt to go walking last weekend! Public pillory costs people their jobs (unless you're Dominic Cummings). I think it's worth comparing with the guys who were rescued on the Cobbler the week before, that was before phase 1 so they could be fined under the regulations. Nevertheless, this charge is clearly an outlier. At that time - a crisis but a lesser crisis than this - various of the agencies and individuals one would have expected to have been asking awkward questions and attempting to get things back to normality in terms of hill access went strangely quiet and seemed to find other things to do (then re-emerged after matters had been resolved and tried to claim bits of credit). It's quite an important concept because once you break that barrier down, what's to stop you from being put in prison because you're...recklessly climbing a crag in 2023, post-coronavirus? Be careful you Scots, Sturgeon did say the other day, if too many people take the piss, they'll make the guidance Law. – Tillicoultry GC is a good example of this.
The high Ochils on summer evenings are lovely. > These completely open "use your judgement" things really aren't very helpful. This p*ssing about that Boris is indulging in is just making it take longer for infections to fall to near zero where it will be safe for everyone to get out. The settlement you live in? So is it now better for hill walkers to break the guidelines and all crowd together rather than break the guidelines in order to be away from others? It may be illegal, it may not be. What works for the city isn't going to work for the highlands & islands. I think for now Menstrie is probably my limit, and I haven't even been that far *to go to the hills*. The restrictions need to be blanket in nature, otherwise they would just lead to chaos. I felt really happy for him, and meeting him was undoubtedly the highlight of my day.
(There is a lot of effort going in to use remote working as much as possible but that introduces a lot of contentious issues too).
Nice circuit of White Wisp to Ben Cleuch and back over Kingseat.
> If they were closer to home they wouldn't risk recklessly spreading a serious infection to remote communities.
The thing is you don't call the MRT you call the police and ask for Mountain Rescue. From The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (Scotland) Regulations 2020. > " While I do not think this will come to anything the consequences of it becoming precedent could be far reaching. For example, if mountain rescuers are put under a significant risk to their health (e.g.
/* 728x90, created 1/20/09 */ Even in the former case I would have thought that the PF would have a difficult job. Pretty much everyone, I’d guess. The fact that all three are being discussed has clearly led to some misunderstanding and aggravation.
It doesn't matter whether you think the punishment is fitting; it's unjust to misuse the law to punish people who have not broken it.
I work in Dollar and know lots of people there (some of whom have offered parking and been on he hills with me, so it certainly feels local/community. Many unsociable climbing types are probably very atypical in valuing the freedom to drive 100 miles and walk up a hill on their own above driving ten miles to visit a friend they havn't seen for ten weeks - the guidelines are not tailored for us outliers and so may well seem topsy-turvy. Should they be ignored? The fact that runners, walkers and cyclists go on journeys is a bit of an anomaly really for most people. Your actions are based on reasonable judgement and I'm not for a second suggesting they would put anyone at risk.
Good point - I hadn't thought of that. Looks like something they could do to anyone at anytime if they get away with it now. So its dangerous and unhealthy (diesel fumes) to use them. Are you a fan of mob rule? But what if the Crianlarich sister then said "It's a lovely day, how about we go for a walk - Beinn a' Chroin, perhaps?" So do you think it is generally being interpreted as being able to travel as far as you like to visit people? Its a serious charge compared to the guys on the Cobbler. > I'm not backing down on this so we'll just have to agree to disagree. A limiting exercise to within 5 miles of home is not going to restrict anyone. No matter how morally abhorrent you might find it, there's simply nothing unlawful or illegal about driving however many miles you want to go for a walk. It's a Scottish Government document, not an SNP thing. Is it just me or is this thread descending into a discussion about what is acceptable within and without of the guidance, and/or the law, and what may be appropriate consequences in varying scenarios? I have just read the recent posts on this thread and regret the antagonism which seems to emerge between people who would normally be bosom buddies.
It would be a bit annoying if they have. Good excuse to explore odd corners that you don't normally go to. I think I can safely say that if I lived in the Highlands I would be exercising in the Highlands. Is there any hard evidence for this, or is it just hearsay? > Interesting statistic today. I would say... you might as well drop the 50 mile limit. Better to just accept that we are all in it together and put up with it for a few more weeks, frustrating though it is. It can ruin peoples lives and in some cases lead to serious mental health problems and suicide. are desperate to be allowed to go out in groups of 4. The real depressing aspect of last weekend was the litter.
> Why do you think you would have deserved to be pilloried? It is however reasonable to assume that the current crisis and the guidelines will form part of the facts and circumstances considered.
My favourite evening walk/run in the Ochils is the Ben Ever/Ben Cleuch/Andrew Gannell/Kingseat circuit from Tillicoultry, but at the moment I think I would feel uneasy about venturing beyond Dollar to Tilly - It wouldn't really feel local. Likewise some individuals in the hill-journalism field - suddenly they seem far more interested in tweeting about Trump or Cummings rather than about what's going on under their own noses. As someone else has noted, though, the 5-mile limit was described as “flexible” and “advisory” so plod had to make something up from whatever they had in their pockets. > We don't know if this will be a case yet.
I think it's a very distasteful form of punishment to advocate.
One would assume that, if they were in breach of that law, they would be charged with an offence under that law? Wonder what will happen in winter with 'High' avalanche warnings ("We advise not going onto the hill")? Half the 64pi square km I have is sea, the other half is mostly urban with any walks involving roads which has required a round of Russian roulette with the boy racers, too frightening for my other half - now that's a job for the polis!
This means that some people hardly go anywhere while others stretch "local" to Crianlarich or wherever. You wouldn't have done anything illegal or anything liable to spread the virus (assuming that you took appropriate precautions regarding distancing, touching gates or stiles etc). 5 miles is the guide for how far we can travel for exercise, not how far we can go while exercising. The guidance is relevant because it appears that since the police were unable to charge them under the guidance they looked for something else. It is not clear whether any alleged offence stems from the activity of hillwalking or behaviour that would be an offence whatever activity it was associated with. As a final point, what on Earth were Scottish MR thinking when they decided to openly state that they welcome the prosecution? Sorry I meant would you drive to the Ochils and so on from Edinburgh (but no need to answer!). So gathering in a huge crowd not culpable and reckless.
So, is the inference that they are only charging someone if they get in to some sort of difficulty ( whilst well over 5 miles away ) and have to call help ? > Talking this morning to a fellow who travels to Loch Earn for essential work. Five miles might be a vague aspiration but 50 miles is clearly outside the spirit of the thing. It's hard to know what actually happened without being there, I guess with the extremely hot conditions it would be easy for some people not to factor in extra clothing required for wind chill etc, or lack of water refill points due to extremely dry spring, the walkers in question might have been more experienced than what we assume. If threre is, I will happily retract all that I have said. I've also bivied on West Lomond once during lockdown. It's not apparent what they have done wrong. > I think getting charged by a misguided policeman would possibly even be quite amusing! Do you not have any such concerns in this situation? One might, somewhat fancifully perhaps, interpret that as they have no hills immediately next to them that its fine to go for a 1hrish drive to the nearest ones. The outcome of the report being sent to the PF is unknown.
So it must be correct. If they went hill-walking knowing that they had Covid-19 then the probability of them infecting anyone would be very small.
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